Talk:Tutorial:First Steps

Needs Updates

This page needs some serious reworking, especially since I imagine it is one of the more frequented pages on the wiki. Stuff like Kinetic and Heat power aren't even in here. I can see people are probably a little sentimental about the photos from Beta 1.4, but that was four years ago (March 2011) and the information in that Wind Power section (which I just removed) literally hasn't been updated since it was first added July 28, 2012. --Max Shen (talk) 07:05, 28 February 2015 (CET)

It's hard to update this beyond what the wiki has. For example, the wiki still lists the information for Wind Mill that you just deleted, along with Youtube videos from 2012 and 2013. I did a major update last summer to bring it up to experimental, but I didn't remove any old pics. Updates to this guide pretty much have to be made to the main wiki first. If you know enough to update the Wind Mill page, that would be great. Then we could add the new version to this guide. I would add Kinetic and Heat power, but I don't know how they work myself. I don't really see how they add anything over electricity, but then again I haven't tried it. If you want to write something up, I'd be happy to edit it, if needed. I'll try to find some time to mess around with the new version of the mod, but by the time I catch up there'll probably be another major revision. --Trifler (talk) 08:29, 28 February 2015 (CET)

Alternative Power

Ok I took a good look at the new Wind Generator and the Heat stuff. I definitely don't like the durability times for the rotors, especially of the wood ones, since they're the only ones you can make from a renewable resource. It looks like the Heat stuff is mostly about making Refined Iron, so it probably doesn't need to be in a First Steps guide, unless more stuff is added later. The Stirling Engine is kind of weird because if you hook up a solid or liquid heat generator to a Stirling Engine, you've basically created a two-block Generator. Have to see how efficient it is I suppose. I can work on adding a Kinetic Wind Generator with a wooden rotor. If they make the Heat stuff a little more interesting I might add a refined iron rotor later. The regular iron rotor seems like a waste. --Trifler (talk) 10:13, 28 February 2015 (CET)

Actually, they are all renewable even without replication. Obviously wood and iron are renewable (iron from Ferru, Golems, Zombies). Refined Iron requires iron, Compressed Air Cells (you get the cells back), and heat (which can be generated greenly). If you're really going to put in the effort, the Slag byproduct of refining iron actually can be centrifuged to make a renewable source of Coal Dust, or make a Wither Skeleton farm on top of the Nether. I'll try and update more of the wiki, too.--Max Shen (talk) 13:34, 28 February 2015 (CET)

Do you know how to make an Iron Shaft? It hasn't been added to the wiki yet, and no version of the Kinetic Wind Generator can be built without it. Also, do you know if the Manual Kinetic Generator is working yet? I see it listed on the Recipes page. --Trifler (talk) 16:37, 2 March 2015 (CET)

You make the Shaft (Iron) in a Metal Former by extruding an Iron Block. The Manual Kinetic Generator works perfectly, it generates 100 EU per action (right click) when connected to a Kinetic Generator. I get ~15EU/t by standing there holding the right mouse button.--Max Shen (talk) 17:40, 4 March 2015 (CET)

Cool. Thx. :) --Trifler (talk) 05:49, 5 March 2015 (CET)

Added. --Trifler (talk) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)

The Manual Kinetic Generator itself produces kU (kinetic units), not EU. That is why it needs a Kinetic Generator to be attached to produce that 100 EU I was talking about.--Max Shen (talk) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)

I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --Trifler (talk) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)

Steam could never be early game. Mid game maybe to make distilled water for overclockers, but it's designed for the 5x5 reactors. Chocohead ^{Nag• Additions} 17:12, 5 March 2015 (CET)

Here's everything you need to know about steam in real life.
You may already know some/all of this, but for posterity I assume you are unfamiliar with the topic in general but probably learned basic thermodynamics (such as "what is temperature" and "what are the states of matter") in school. Unless you feel like reading all of it, read the bold first, and if you don't understand that then read the surrounding text.
Steam Steam is the gaseous form of water. Water vapor is also the gaseous form of water, but water vapor is at ambient temperature whereas steam must be above the boiling point. For our purposes, you need to know two values in relation to steam: the boiling point of water given a specific pressure, and the critical temperature of water. I will tell you flat out, the critical temperature of water is a constant of 374°C. Let's talk about steam production. Steam is usually made by boiling water. When water reaches a certain temperature, the boiling point, it will boil into water vapor (which is steam, remember?). Most people have memorized the boiling point of water, 100° Celsius (if you are an [American who only knows Fahrenheit], you will need to learn Celsius to use IC2). This is actually the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure (international, non-metric, non-SI unit for pressure) using the old Celsius scale. For all practical purposes it is the same as the new Celsius scale (based on absolute zero instead of water's freezing and boiling point, since 1954) and the "standard-state" 99.9839°C at 1 bar (the metric unit for pressure). The authority on the matter, the IUPAC, has only recommended the standard-state at 1 bar since 1982. There is a relationship between pressure, temperature, and the boiling point of water. To understand this, think about the properties of liquids and gasses. Gasses spread much faster and are less opaque (usually they are transparent) than liquids; gasses have more kinetic energy and are less dense than liquids. Remember that a large component of thermal energy (temperature) is kinetic energy and you will understand that at higher temperatures a liquid becomes more gaseous. We can derive the direct relationship between pressure and density: increasing the pressure acting on an object decreases its volume and therefore increases its density. The reverse holds true, at lower pressures an object increases its volume and so decreases its density. Gasses are less dense than liquids, so lower pressures will make a liquid more gaseous while higher pressures will make a liquid less gaseous. Now remember that the boiling point is the temperature at which a liquid will boil into a gas, and therefore a high boiling point means the liquid at that pressure requires a higher temperature to boil. Put all this together and you can understand why at higher pressures the boiling point rises. The math used to calculate the boiling point is actually relatively complex, and involves nonlinear curves to find the relationship between pressure and temperature. The formula you will have to use is the Clausius–Clapeyron Relation, but I will help you out by filling in some constants for water. All you need to do to find the temperature water boils at TB is plug in the pressure, P. If you want to use any calculator such as Wolfram Alpha, just copy this and replace 'P': ((1 / 373.1339)-(8.314 ln(P) / 40650))^-1 - 273.15 I'll also give you some examples: T1 = 99.9839°C T10 = 179.5305°C T25 = 221.4935°C T50 = 258.7958°C T100 = 302.1829°C T150 = 331.0082°C T200 = 353.2763°C T250 = 371.7124°C T300 = 387.6013°C You also have to know what "critical temperature" means in thermodynamics. A substance's "critical temperature" is the temperature at which the substance can not be compressed into a liquid anymore, no matter how much pressure is applied. Steam below the critical point is called either "saturated steam" (aka. "wet steam") or "dry steam", depending on the temperature. "Saturated steam" is steam as close as possible to the saturation point, which is what you call the boiling point if the substance is a gas already. Saturated steam is probably what you think of when you hear "steam". There is usually still a small amount of liquid in saturated steam, which you can see (this is known as aerosol). Early steam-related inventions rely on saturated steam, for example the pressure cooker. There is a major disadvantage to using saturated steam for industrial applications: when the steam makes contact with a surface, the reactive force increases local pressure and causes the steam to condensate into liquid water! This can be problematic for many reasons, for example the liquid water being picked up by incoming steam (a loss of kinetic energy that otherwise would have gone into a turbine), then the liquid water being thrown at the next wall or turbine with a hailstorm-like effect. Luckily for industrialists, there is an alternative to saturated steam. If you heat up saturated steam enough (but not past the critical point), the liquid all evaporates, the steam becomes invisible, and it is possible to put the "dry steam" to work because you don't have to worry about the small droplets of water damaging your machinery (think how hailstorms work) if you keep the pressure low enough. Although impact with working machinery is no longer a problem, applying too much pressure to "dry steam" will still produce liquid water which can damage machinery. The first popular steam applications used dry steam. If you heat water past the critical point, you get "superheated steam". With superheated steam, even high pressures do not produce liquid water. For these reasons, superheated steam is used virtually everywhere in industry where high-pressure is practical. For example: steam locomotives, coal plants, and nuclear plants use superheated steam exclusively.
Calcification OK, first this is related to steam because although boiling water does kill most unwanted microbes, it does not rectify chemical impurities such as acidity, toxins, or mineral content. You probably know the difference between "hard water" and "soft water". Well, "hard water" is water with high mineral content, usually calcium and magnesium from being filtered through calcium and magnesium containing rocks. This is all safe for your body (you may notice "soap scum" when washing your hands but this is not actually a problem), but for example pipes, drains, etc. will eventually accumulate deposits of a hard, white calcite called "scale". This is especially problematic for household liquid heating systems (boilers), since this scale builds up and causes stoppage and all sorts of problems. It is for the same reason a problem in industrial settings, unless you soften the water. "Soft water" is just water which doesn't have high mineral content. Probably the most thorough way to soften hard water is to distill (evaporate then re-condensate) the water, but in all practicality this is usually too expensive. Rainwater is a great example of distilled water (although not purified). Today, we usually use specially made organic polymer filters called "ion exchange resins" to replace the "hard" calcium/magnesium ions with sodium/potassium ions (we also use ion exchange resins to purify water of poisonous substances like copper and lead). Before the technology for ion exchange resins existed, people mixed water with calcium hydroxide (limewater) to remove the calcium/magnesium ions by forming clumps of calcium carbonate and magnesium hydroxide precipitate.

Steam in IC2
There's probably a lot I haven't figured out yet, but here's what I think I know.
Production: The Steam Generator In IC2, you make steam with a Steam Generator. The Steam Generator is a pretty complicated (albeit cheap and early-game) machine which converts heat and water/distilled water into water, steam, or superheated steam. If you right click on one, the GUI is probably the second most complicated in the mod (aside from reactors). First of all, the Steam Generator is always on and if the temperature fills up all the way it WILL explode (however it will only destroy itself and water source blocks). You need water to make steam. You get the water with an adjacent Pump with a Fluid Ejector Upgrade, Fluid Distributor's Output Face, or Fluid Regulator's Output Face. You may notice in the Steam Generator's GUI that there is a calcification bar on the right. If you read the above section on calcification, you would know that you do NOT want this bar to fill up. If it does, the Steam Generator stops working (as far as I know, until you replace it). There is actually a fluid in IC2 called "ic2distilledwater", which is produced very slowly in a Solar Distiller during the daytime. I recommend using Fluid Ejector Upgrades and Fluid Distributors to operate your distillation setup, but you could also do something with Electric Sorting Machines if you do not mind the extra power. If you distribute distilled water to your Steam Generator, it will not calcify. Now about the output of the Steam Generator. I have gotten the Steam Generator to output water, steam, and superheated steam depending on the pressure and water intake settings (I will cover this next). There is a place in the top of the GUI which tells you what the Generator is currently producing. If the machine produces water, it does not need to output anything but will output water and clog up your systems if possible. If it is producing steam or superheated steam, ensure that the steam has a place to go! Otherwise, there will be an explosion effect signifying the loss of steam. This effect does not destroy any blocks (not even the Steam Generator or water source blocks), but it is still bad news since heat and water are still being expended to produce the immediately-discarded steam. As far as I know, steam is only consumed by Kinetic Steam Generators. OK, now the most important part. The actual GUI. On the bottom is the water tank, and next to it the water intake dial. On the left is the "System" temperature of the generator, on the right is the calcification meter. In the middle, under the squiggly is the heat input being consumed no matter what (even if it is not producing anything). On the top, to the left, is the pressure dial; to the right of the pressure dial is the output type and quantity. You will have to do some experimenting, but I noticed the lowest possible pressure to get Superheated Steam from 1mB of Water per tick is 220 Bar. As far as I can tell, changing the intake to any value other than 1mB/tick bugs out the GUI. This means your water-to-steam ratio is always 1:100. Steam is output to the nearest accepting side (Fluid Distributors or a Kinetic Steam Generator).
Usage: The Kinetic Steam Generator The only use for steam in IC2 (which I know of) is the Kinetic Steam Generator. This machine creates kinetic (shaft) energy by letting steam turn a Steam Turbine. Like other Kinetic Generators, the Kinetic Steam Generator must have the black hole face attached to a Kinetic Generator's black-hole-with-circle face, and the Kinetic Generator will produce EU. The Kinetic Steam Generator produces a variable amount of kU/t depending on the amount of steam available and the amount of distilled water which is currently in the machine. What distilled water? Well, if you use normal steam, the Kinetic Steam Generator will produce distilled water which slowly adds up and floods the internal chamber, slowing down and damaging the turbine inside. A fluid ejector upgrade should solve this problem, and you can even reroute the distilled water back into your Steam Generator. Using superheated steam instead causes harmless explosion effects, but the turbine lasts about twice as long (so it seems, at least) and the steam does not condense into distilled water (instead it escapes into the atmosphere during those explosions).

Note that the Kinetic Steam Generator requires blast iron casings, so this disqualifies steam power from earlygame.--Max Shen (talk) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)

A valient attempt :P Just a few things I must correct:

1. Changing the water input rate on the steam generator doesn't make it bug out, it just makes it require more heat. So, normally, it takes 100hU to get 1mb of water to 100°C. Setting it to 2 makes it require 200hU. Changing the pressure also affects the heat requirement though, so you probably saw these effects stacking. If it doesn't get enough heat, it goes funky.

2. Steam can be put in a condenser to get distilled water. This also stops steam explosions, which is nice, as suddenly you're not relying on 1000000 solar distillers to get your distilled water for you steam setup.

3. Superheated steam can be sent back through a turbine, as it comes out as normal steam (from the 1st one). Hence 200 bar at 1/2mb is the best setup for maximum power out of the steam.

4. Never power a steam generator off an electric heat generator. You're throwing power away with the inefficiency. If you don't have any lava or hot coolant though, it might be your only option. Just don't rely on it if you're trying for a net gain of power.

5. The ratio is always 1:100 water/distilled water:steam/superheated steam. The pressure has no effect on this.

6. The steam generator can accept heat from any side. Not sure if you mentioned that, but it can.

7. It's refined iron, not blast iron :P

Chocohead ^{Nag• Additions} 00:20, 6 March 2015 (CET)

I didn't even think to put another turbine after the first! OK, now how about a couple questions from me?

1. How does the pressure affect the heat requirement? I've tried multiple configurations, for example 2mB/t at 0 bar with 300hU/t still makes the output type flash between water and steam, the temperature does not stabilize, etc.
2. How do you set the Kinetic Steam Generator to take in 1/2mB/t? A Fluid Regulator with the dial set to 10mB/s?

--Max Shen (talk) 01:37, 6 March 2015 (CET)

1. Pressure increases the heat requirement by a bit per bar. It's less than 1, as 0 bar at 1 mb/t is 100hU, while 220 bar at 1 mb/t is 200hU.

2. There'd not really be any reason to limit what a kinetic steam generator is given steam wise, since Steam is otherwise useless (unless you're converting it all into distilled water using condensers), you should try and put all of it into the kinetic steam generator to avoid steam explosions.

Chocohead ^{Nag• Edits• Admin} 01:43, 21 March 2015 (CET)

I seem to have messed up the indentation with those spoilers, sorry. If anyone can fix that, please do... :S --Max Shen (talk) 21:52, 25 March 2015 (CET)

Biofuel

Now that I've gotten into it, Biofuel is a very good alternative energy source. It requires a bit of infrastructure, but the infrastructure is all Tier 1 (LV) while being fully renewable and later automated.

   Biochaff + Water in left tank -(Fluid/Solid Canning Machine)-> Biomass -(Fermenter)-> Biofuel -(Fluid Distributor)-> at least two Fluid Generators, one for the Fermenter and one for a Stirling Engine

Well, I think it could be done before having an MFE. With Crop-Harvesters the process could definitely be fully automated.--Max Shen (talk) 21:52, 25 March 2015 (CET)

It could easily done before an MFE. MFEs cost 16 diamonds, getting enough iron and a way to produce biomass is a lot easier than that. Chocohead ^{Nag• Edits• Admin} 23:57, 25 March 2015 (CET)