Talk:Tutorial:First Steps

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Revision as of 05:25, 15 October 2011 by Subignition (talk | contribs)
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Deletion of old Tutorial[edit]

Wow...

First, I disagree with your decision to simply delete the old tutorial. Second, I disagree with even mentioning that IC2 works well with existing worlds, especially in a tutorial. Third, when you tell people to go mining, you should make your list of Copper, Iron, Rubber, etc. include the ingredients necessary for the Generator, as the Extractor is completely useless without it and they'll have to go back out to mine again based on your current list.

- I also recommend not having the tutorial reader use a cable to connect the Generator to the Extractor. Just place them side-by-side.
- Don't mention Industrial Diamonds in a tutorial.
- It would be good to change it up so that the tutorial recommends upgrading the Furnace to an Iron Furnace right up near the top, then has the player make a Macerator (Resin seems much easier to collect in 1.15 than in 1.00), and then convert the Iron Furnace into a Generator. Use the now functional Macerator to build a new Iron Furnace, then make an Extractor, and possibly continue on to an Electric Furnace. --Trifler 11:53, 13 October 2011 (CEST)

Quote.pngI totally agree Trifler and btw you are not allowed to create pages/your own userpage, because many ppl would just screw up with pages. so they have to ask for get a page created. And if you don't like the layout or functions of this wiki: you are free to never visit this page again.Quote.png
by Feanturi(Agree to Trifler)

I don't want to involve myself in whatever drama is going on; I just want to point out that Extractors can be used without a Generator. They can be run using Redstone as fuel, so building one first is quite valid.
0x517A5D 22:27, 13 October 2011 (CEST)
* Hmm good point I forgot about that. --Trifler 04:46, 14 October 2011 (CEST)

Really? Really?

I disagree with your decision to simply delete the old tutorial.

I decided to write a new version of the tutorial when I discovered this mod, tried to follow that tutorial, and got hopelessly lost in its disorganization and bad wording. None of the images in that article should be there, A) we don't need to see some random person's "pretty house" to learn how to make machines, B) those screenshots are using a custom texture pack, which is confusing and misrepresents the mod, C) the article insults the reader near the bottom. I admit it's a bit rude to just overwrite it, but you've gotta be kidding me if you honestly don't think it needs some work. (And about crediting the tutorials to single users on the download page, that's appropriate if the links are to user subpages (if you even want to open that can of worms), or if they're offsite, but right now it doesn't make sense in context.)

I disagree with even mentioning that IC2 works well with existing worlds, especially in a tutorial.

I never said it "worked well" with existing worlds, please don't put words in my mouth. I said it was possible to use IC² with an existing world, and that if you wanted to do so, you needed to take precautions to avoid ruining your world in vanilla. That's more than enough warning, in my opinion.

Third, when you tell people to go mining, [...] they'll have to go back out to mine again based on your current list.

You make a good point here. Listing what people need is a naive approach. I think it should either be removed entirely (so readers can figure out their own requirements based on what they want to make) or each section should have all the necessary materials totaled up and prepended to it.

Don't mention Industrial Diamonds in a tutorial.

...So does the old one.
Might remove that then.
Hey if you reply to multiple places in one edit, don't be afraid to sign twice.
-- SubIgnition (talk) 07:25, 15 October 2011 (CEST)

Feanturi:

you are not allowed to create pages/your own userpage, because many ppl would just screw up with pages. so they have to ask for get a page created.

I can understand people probably spam on user pages, but they are very useful, people who want to experiment with formatting, templates or revisions can do so on sub pages and stuff. Admins may be the only ones capable of deleting pages outright, but editors share the responsibility of policing content.

And if you don't like the layout or functions of this wiki: you are free to never visit this page again.

You seem to be painting me as a bad guy here. I wouldn't have registered an account if I didn't want to help, and moreover, my expressing discontent for lack of (relatively) helpful features shouldn't be taken personally. Citations and external links look a lot cleaner if they're consolidated as a references section. Same with <math> even though it wouldn't get used nearly as much.

What you're doing and what you want to do seem like they're two different things. MediaWiki is for consensus, community and collaboration! If this site is intended to be simply a reference, or rigid documentation produced solely by the author(s), there are probably better choices of software to support it. -- SubIgnition (talk) 19:26, 14 October 2011 (CEST)

I think you're missing the point. A lot of people who came before you (and me) worked on that tutorial. Now, I agree it needs a lot of work. Maybe a complete re-write would be a good thing, BUT I think it's either better to redo sections of the existing tutorial a little at a time (so people can review, etc.) or add your tutorial as an additional tutorial. --Trifler 23:02, 14 October 2011 (CEST)
Okay. I understand the sentiment. In lieu of a subpage, I am going to copy the revision I authored to my userpage, and then it can be discussed and revised from my talk page. I'll add a non-intrusive link to the top of the current page as well, so visitors can compare the two.
-- SubIgnition (talk) 07:25, 15 October 2011 (CEST)