Talk:Tutorial:First Steps - Revision history

Chocohead: /* Biofuel */

2015-03-25T22:57:38Z

Biofuel

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:57, 25 March 2015
Line 127:		Line 127:
	Biochaff + Water in left tank -(Fluid/Solid Canning Machine)-> Biomass -(Fermenter)-> Biofuel -(Fluid Distributor)-> at least two Fluid Generators, one for the Fermenter and one for a Stirling Engine		Biochaff + Water in left tank -(Fluid/Solid Canning Machine)-> Biomass -(Fermenter)-> Biofuel -(Fluid Distributor)-> at least two Fluid Generators, one for the Fermenter and one for a Stirling Engine
	Well, I think it could be done before having an MFE. With Crop-Harvesters the process could definitely be fully automated.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 21:52, 25 March 2015 (CET)		Well, I think it could be done before having an MFE. With Crop-Harvesters the process could definitely be fully automated.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 21:52, 25 March 2015 (CET)

			: It could easily done before an MFE. MFEs cost 16 diamonds, getting enough iron and a way to produce biomass is a lot easier than that. '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Edits</span>]]• <span style="color:orange">Admin</span></sup>''' 23:57, 25 March 2015 (CET)

Max Shen at 20:52, 25 March 2015

2015-03-25T20:52:40Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:52, 25 March 2015
Line 1:		Line 1:
			== Needs Updates ==
	This page needs some serious reworking, especially since I imagine it is one of the more frequented pages on the wiki. Stuff like Kinetic and Heat power aren't even in here. I can see people are probably a little sentimental about the photos from Beta 1.4, but that was four years ago (March 2011) and the information in that Wind Power section (which I just removed) literally hasn't been updated since it was first added July 28, 2012.		This page needs some serious reworking, especially since I imagine it is one of the more frequented pages on the wiki. Stuff like Kinetic and Heat power aren't even in here. I can see people are probably a little sentimental about the photos from Beta 1.4, but that was four years ago (March 2011) and the information in that Wind Power section (which I just removed) literally hasn't been updated since it was first added July 28, 2012.
	--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 07:05, 28 February 2015 (CET)		--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 07:05, 28 February 2015 (CET)
Line 4:		Line 5:
	:It's hard to update this beyond what the wiki has. For example, the wiki still lists the information for [[Wind Mill]] that you just deleted, along with Youtube videos from 2012 and 2013. I did a major update last summer to bring it up to experimental, but I didn't remove any old pics. Updates to this guide pretty much have to be made to the main wiki first. If you know enough to update the Wind Mill page, that would be great. Then we could add the new version to this guide. I would add Kinetic and Heat power, but I don't know how they work myself. I don't really see how they add anything over electricity, but then again I haven't tried it. If you want to write something up, I'd be happy to edit it, if needed. I'll try to find some time to mess around with the new version of the mod, but by the time I catch up there'll probably be another major revision. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 08:29, 28 February 2015 (CET)		:It's hard to update this beyond what the wiki has. For example, the wiki still lists the information for [[Wind Mill]] that you just deleted, along with Youtube videos from 2012 and 2013. I did a major update last summer to bring it up to experimental, but I didn't remove any old pics. Updates to this guide pretty much have to be made to the main wiki first. If you know enough to update the Wind Mill page, that would be great. Then we could add the new version to this guide. I would add Kinetic and Heat power, but I don't know how they work myself. I don't really see how they add anything over electricity, but then again I haven't tried it. If you want to write something up, I'd be happy to edit it, if needed. I'll try to find some time to mess around with the new version of the mod, but by the time I catch up there'll probably be another major revision. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 08:29, 28 February 2015 (CET)

	:Ok I took a good look at the new Wind Generator and the Heat stuff. I definitely don't like the durability times for the rotors, especially of the wood ones, since they're the only ones you can make from a renewable resource. It looks like the Heat stuff is mostly about making Refined Iron, so it probably doesn't need to be in a First Steps guide, unless more stuff is added later. The Stirling Engine is kind of weird because if you hook up a solid or liquid heat generator to a Stirling Engine, you've basically created a two-block [[Generator]]. Have to see how efficient it is I suppose. I can work on adding a Kinetic Wind Generator with a wooden rotor. If they make the Heat stuff a little more interesting I might add a refined iron rotor later. The regular iron rotor seems like a waste. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 10:13, 28 February 2015 (CET)		== Alternative Power ==
	::Actually, they are all renewable even without replication. Obviously wood and iron are renewable (iron from Ferru, Golems, Zombies). Refined Iron requires iron, Compressed Air Cells (you get the cells back), and heat (which can be generated greenly). If you're really going to put in the effort, the Slag byproduct of refining iron actually can be centrifuged to make a renewable source of Coal Dust, or make a Wither Skeleton farm on top of the Nether. I'll try and update more of the wiki, too.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 13:34, 28 February 2015 (CET)		Ok I took a good look at the new Wind Generator and the Heat stuff. I definitely don't like the durability times for the rotors, especially of the wood ones, since they're the only ones you can make from a renewable resource. It looks like the Heat stuff is mostly about making Refined Iron, so it probably doesn't need to be in a First Steps guide, unless more stuff is added later. The Stirling Engine is kind of weird because if you hook up a solid or liquid heat generator to a Stirling Engine, you've basically created a two-block [[Generator]]. Have to see how efficient it is I suppose. I can work on adding a Kinetic Wind Generator with a wooden rotor. If they make the Heat stuff a little more interesting I might add a refined iron rotor later. The regular iron rotor seems like a waste. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 10:13, 28 February 2015 (CET)
			:Actually, they are all renewable even without replication. Obviously wood and iron are renewable (iron from Ferru, Golems, Zombies). Refined Iron requires iron, Compressed Air Cells (you get the cells back), and heat (which can be generated greenly). If you're really going to put in the effort, the Slag byproduct of refining iron actually can be centrifuged to make a renewable source of Coal Dust, or make a Wither Skeleton farm on top of the Nether. I'll try and update more of the wiki, too.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 13:34, 28 February 2015 (CET)

	:Do you know how to make an Iron Shaft? It hasn't been added to the wiki yet, and no version of the Kinetic Wind Generator can be built without it. Also, do you know if the Manual Kinetic Generator is working yet? I see it listed on the Recipes page. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 16:37, 2 March 2015 (CET)		::Do you know how to make an Iron Shaft? It hasn't been added to the wiki yet, and no version of the Kinetic Wind Generator can be built without it. Also, do you know if the Manual Kinetic Generator is working yet? I see it listed on the Recipes page. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 16:37, 2 March 2015 (CET)
	::You make the Shaft (Iron) in a Metal Former by extruding an Iron Block. The Manual Kinetic Generator works perfectly, it generates 100 EU per action (right click) when connected to a Kinetic Generator. I get ~15EU/t by standing there holding the right mouse button.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 17:40, 4 March 2015 (CET)		:::You make the Shaft (Iron) in a Metal Former by extruding an Iron Block. The Manual Kinetic Generator works perfectly, it generates 100 EU per action (right click) when connected to a Kinetic Generator. I get ~15EU/t by standing there holding the right mouse button.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 17:40, 4 March 2015 (CET)
	:::Cool. Thx. :) --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 05:49, 5 March 2015 (CET)		::::Cool. Thx. :) --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 05:49, 5 March 2015 (CET)
	:::Added. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)		::::Added. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)
	::::The Manual Kinetic Generator itself produces kU (kinetic units), not EU. That is why it needs a Kinetic Generator to be attached to produce that 100 EU I was talking about.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)		:::::The Manual Kinetic Generator itself produces kU (kinetic units), not EU. That is why it needs a Kinetic Generator to be attached to produce that 100 EU I was talking about.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)

	:I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)		:I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)
Line 119:		Line 121:
	:::: 2. There'd not really be any reason to limit what a kinetic steam generator is given steam wise, since Steam is otherwise useless (unless you're converting it all into distilled water using condensers), you should try and put all of it into the kinetic steam generator to avoid steam explosions.		:::: 2. There'd not really be any reason to limit what a kinetic steam generator is given steam wise, since Steam is otherwise useless (unless you're converting it all into distilled water using condensers), you should try and put all of it into the kinetic steam generator to avoid steam explosions.
	::: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Edits</span>]]• <span style="color:orange">Admin</span></sup>''' 01:43, 21 March 2015 (CET)		::: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Edits</span>]]• <span style="color:orange">Admin</span></sup>''' 01:43, 21 March 2015 (CET)
			: I seem to have messed up the indentation with those spoilers, sorry. If anyone can fix that, please do... :S --[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 21:52, 25 March 2015 (CET)

			== Biofuel ==
			Now that I've gotten into it, Biofuel is a ''very'' good alternative energy source. It requires a bit of infrastructure, but the infrastructure is all Tier 1 (LV) while being fully renewable and later automated.
			Biochaff + Water in left tank -(Fluid/Solid Canning Machine)-> Biomass -(Fermenter)-> Biofuel -(Fluid Distributor)-> at least two Fluid Generators, one for the Fermenter and one for a Stirling Engine
			Well, I think it could be done before having an MFE. With Crop-Harvesters the process could definitely be fully automated.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 21:52, 25 March 2015 (CET)

Chocohead: So apparently I never answered

2015-03-21T00:43:52Z

So apparently I never answered

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:43, 21 March 2015
Line 115:		Line 115:
	:::#How do you set the Kinetic Steam Generator to take in 1/2mB/t? A Fluid Regulator with the dial set to 10mB/s?		:::#How do you set the Kinetic Steam Generator to take in 1/2mB/t? A Fluid Regulator with the dial set to 10mB/s?
	::--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 01:37, 6 March 2015 (CET)		::--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 01:37, 6 March 2015 (CET)

			:::: 1. Pressure increases the heat requirement by a bit per bar. It's less than 1, as 0 bar at 1 mb/t is 100hU, while 220 bar at 1 mb/t is 200hU.
			:::: 2. There'd not really be any reason to limit what a kinetic steam generator is given steam wise, since Steam is otherwise useless (unless you're converting it all into distilled water using condensers), you should try and put all of it into the kinetic steam generator to avoid steam explosions.
			::: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Edits</span>]]• <span style="color:orange">Admin</span></sup>''' 01:43, 21 March 2015 (CET)

Max Shen at 00:37, 6 March 2015

2015-03-06T00:37:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:37, 6 March 2015
Line 114:		Line 114:
	:::#How does the pressure affect the heat requirement? I've tried multiple configurations, for example 2mB/t at 0 bar with 300hU/t still makes the output type flash between water and steam, the temperature does not stabilize, etc.		:::#How does the pressure affect the heat requirement? I've tried multiple configurations, for example 2mB/t at 0 bar with 300hU/t still makes the output type flash between water and steam, the temperature does not stabilize, etc.
	:::#How do you set the Kinetic Steam Generator to take in 1/2mB/t? A Fluid Regulator with the dial set to 10mB/s?		:::#How do you set the Kinetic Steam Generator to take in 1/2mB/t? A Fluid Regulator with the dial set to 10mB/s?
			::--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 01:37, 6 March 2015 (CET)

Max Shen: Reply to Chocohead

2015-03-06T00:36:42Z

Reply to Chocohead

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:36, 6 March 2015
Line 110:		Line 110:
	:: 7. It's refined iron, not blast iron :P		:: 7. It's refined iron, not blast iron :P
	: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Additions</span>]]</sup>''' 00:20, 6 March 2015 (CET)		: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Additions</span>]]</sup>''' 00:20, 6 March 2015 (CET)

			::I didn't even think to put another turbine after the first! OK, now how about a couple questions from me?
			:::#How does the pressure affect the heat requirement? I've tried multiple configurations, for example 2mB/t at 0 bar with 300hU/t still makes the output type flash between water and steam, the temperature does not stabilize, etc.
			:::#How do you set the Kinetic Steam Generator to take in 1/2mB/t? A Fluid Regulator with the dial set to 10mB/s?

Chocohead: Added a little more

2015-03-05T23:23:31Z

Added a little more

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:23, 5 March 2015
Line 102:		Line 102:

	: A valient attempt :P Just a few things I must correct:		: A valient attempt :P Just a few things I must correct:
	:: 1. Changing the water input rate on the steam generator doesn't make it bug out, it just makes it require more heat. So, normally, it takes 100hU to get 1mb of water to 100°C. Setting it to 2 makes it require 200hU. Changing the pressure also affects the heat requirement though, so you probably saw these effects stacking.		:: 1. Changing the water input rate on the steam generator doesn't make it bug out, it just makes it require more heat. So, normally, it takes 100hU to get 1mb of water to 100°C. Setting it to 2 makes it require 200hU. Changing the pressure also affects the heat requirement though, so you probably saw these effects stacking. If it doesn't get enough heat, it goes funky.
	:: 2. Steam can be put in a condenser to get distilled water. This also stops steam explosions, which is nice, as suddenly you're not relying on 1000000 solar distillers to get your distilled water for you steam setup.		:: 2. Steam can be put in a condenser to get distilled water. This also stops steam explosions, which is nice, as suddenly you're not relying on 1000000 solar distillers to get your distilled water for you steam setup.
	:: 3. Superheated steam can be sent back through a turbine, as it comes out as normal steam. Hence 200 bar at 1/2mb is the best setup for maximum power out of the steam.		:: 3. Superheated steam can be sent back through a turbine, as it comes out as normal steam (from the 1st one). Hence 200 bar at 1/2mb is the best setup for maximum power out of the steam.
	:: 4. Never power a steam generator off an electric heat generator. You're throwing power away with the inefficiency. If you don't have any lava or hot coolant though, it might be your ~~own~~ option. Just don't rely on it if you're trying for a net gain of power.		:: 4. Never power a steam generator off an electric heat generator. You're throwing power away with the inefficiency. If you don't have any lava or hot coolant though, it might be your only option. Just don't rely on it if you're trying for a net gain of power.
	:: 5. The ratio is always 1:100 water/distilled water:steam/superheated steam. The pressure has no effect on this		:: 5. The ratio is always 1:100 water/distilled water:steam/superheated steam. The pressure has no effect on this.
	:: 6. The steam generator can accept heat from any side. Not sure if you mentioned that, but it can.		:: 6. The steam generator can accept heat from any side. Not sure if you mentioned that, but it can.
			:: 7. It's refined iron, not blast iron :P
	: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Additions</span>]]</sup>''' 00:20, 6 March 2015 (CET)		: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Additions</span>]]</sup>''' 00:20, 6 March 2015 (CET)

Chocohead: Close

2015-03-05T23:20:40Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:20, 5 March 2015
Line 100:		Line 100:
	\|}		\|}
	Note that the Kinetic Steam Generator requires blast iron casings, so this disqualifies steam power from earlygame.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)		Note that the Kinetic Steam Generator requires blast iron casings, so this disqualifies steam power from earlygame.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)

			: A valient attempt :P Just a few things I must correct:
			:: 1. Changing the water input rate on the steam generator doesn't make it bug out, it just makes it require more heat. So, normally, it takes 100hU to get 1mb of water to 100°C. Setting it to 2 makes it require 200hU. Changing the pressure also affects the heat requirement though, so you probably saw these effects stacking.
			:: 2. Steam can be put in a condenser to get distilled water. This also stops steam explosions, which is nice, as suddenly you're not relying on 1000000 solar distillers to get your distilled water for you steam setup.
			:: 3. Superheated steam can be sent back through a turbine, as it comes out as normal steam. Hence 200 bar at 1/2mb is the best setup for maximum power out of the steam.
			:: 4. Never power a steam generator off an electric heat generator. You're throwing power away with the inefficiency. If you don't have any lava or hot coolant though, it might be your own option. Just don't rely on it if you're trying for a net gain of power.
			:: 5. The ratio is always 1:100 water/distilled water:steam/superheated steam. The pressure has no effect on this
			:: 6. The steam generator can accept heat from any side. Not sure if you mentioned that, but it can.
			: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Additions</span>]]</sup>''' 00:20, 6 March 2015 (CET)

Max Shen: Chocohead replied while I still had the editor open (it was only open for like, 12 hours...). Moved my actual answer to a more visible spot.

2015-03-05T22:50:40Z

Chocohead replied while I still had the editor open (it was only open for like, 12 hours...). Moved my actual answer to a more visible spot.

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:50, 5 March 2015
Line 14:		Line 14:

	:I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)		:I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)

			:: Steam could never be early game. Mid game maybe to make distilled water for overclockers, but it's designed for the 5x5 reactors. '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Additions</span>]]</sup>''' 17:12, 5 March 2015 (CET)

	::{\| class="wikitable collapsible collapsed"		::{\| class="wikitable collapsible collapsed"
Line 94:		Line 96:
	! style="text-align: left;" \| Usage: The Kinetic Steam Generator		! style="text-align: left;" \| Usage: The Kinetic Steam Generator
	\|-		\|-
	\| The only use for steam in IC2 (which I know of) is the Kinetic Steam Generator. This machine creates kinetic (shaft) energy by letting steam turn a Steam Turbine. Like other Kinetic Generators, the Kinetic Steam Generator must have the black hole face attached to a Kinetic Generator's black-hole-with-circle face, and the Kinetic Generator will produce EU. The Kinetic Steam Generator produces a variable amount of kU/t depending on the amount of steam available and the amount of distilled water which is currently in the machine. What distilled water? Well, if you use normal steam, the Kinetic Steam Generator will produce distilled water which slowly adds up and floods the internal chamber, slowing down and damaging the turbine inside. A fluid ejector upgrade should solve this problem, and you can even reroute the distilled water back into your Steam Generator. Using superheated steam instead causes harmless explosion effects, but the turbine lasts about twice as long (so it seems, at least) and the steam does not condense into distilled water (instead it escapes into the atmosphere during those explosions)~~. Note that the Kinetic Steam Generator requires blast iron casings, so this disqualifies steam power from earlygame~~.		\| The only use for steam in IC2 (which I know of) is the Kinetic Steam Generator. This machine creates kinetic (shaft) energy by letting steam turn a Steam Turbine. Like other Kinetic Generators, the Kinetic Steam Generator must have the black hole face attached to a Kinetic Generator's black-hole-with-circle face, and the Kinetic Generator will produce EU. The Kinetic Steam Generator produces a variable amount of kU/t depending on the amount of steam available and the amount of distilled water which is currently in the machine. What distilled water? Well, if you use normal steam, the Kinetic Steam Generator will produce distilled water which slowly adds up and floods the internal chamber, slowing down and damaging the turbine inside. A fluid ejector upgrade should solve this problem, and you can even reroute the distilled water back into your Steam Generator. Using superheated steam instead causes harmless explosion effects, but the turbine lasts about twice as long (so it seems, at least) and the steam does not condense into distilled water (instead it escapes into the atmosphere during those explosions).
	\|}		\|}
	\|}		\|}
	--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)		Note that the Kinetic Steam Generator requires blast iron casings, so this disqualifies steam power from earlygame.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)

Max Shen: Reply to Trifler

2015-03-05T22:45:50Z

Reply to Trifler

Show changes

Chocohead: Well there's your answer

2015-03-05T16:12:53Z

Well there's your answer

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:12, 5 March 2015
Line 13:		Line 13:

	:I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)		:I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)

			:: Steam could never be early game. Mid game maybe to make distilled water for overclockers, but it's designed for the 5x5 reactors. '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Additions</span>]]</sup>''' 17:12, 5 March 2015 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:52, 25 March 2015
Line 1:		Line 1:
			== Needs Updates ==
	This page needs some serious reworking, especially since I imagine it is one of the more frequented pages on the wiki. Stuff like Kinetic and Heat power aren't even in here. I can see people are probably a little sentimental about the photos from Beta 1.4, but that was four years ago (March 2011) and the information in that Wind Power section (which I just removed) literally hasn't been updated since it was first added July 28, 2012.		This page needs some serious reworking, especially since I imagine it is one of the more frequented pages on the wiki. Stuff like Kinetic and Heat power aren't even in here. I can see people are probably a little sentimental about the photos from Beta 1.4, but that was four years ago (March 2011) and the information in that Wind Power section (which I just removed) literally hasn't been updated since it was first added July 28, 2012.
	--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 07:05, 28 February 2015 (CET)		--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 07:05, 28 February 2015 (CET)
Line 4:		Line 5:
	:It's hard to update this beyond what the wiki has. For example, the wiki still lists the information for [[Wind Mill]] that you just deleted, along with Youtube videos from 2012 and 2013. I did a major update last summer to bring it up to experimental, but I didn't remove any old pics. Updates to this guide pretty much have to be made to the main wiki first. If you know enough to update the Wind Mill page, that would be great. Then we could add the new version to this guide. I would add Kinetic and Heat power, but I don't know how they work myself. I don't really see how they add anything over electricity, but then again I haven't tried it. If you want to write something up, I'd be happy to edit it, if needed. I'll try to find some time to mess around with the new version of the mod, but by the time I catch up there'll probably be another major revision. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 08:29, 28 February 2015 (CET)		:It's hard to update this beyond what the wiki has. For example, the wiki still lists the information for [[Wind Mill]] that you just deleted, along with Youtube videos from 2012 and 2013. I did a major update last summer to bring it up to experimental, but I didn't remove any old pics. Updates to this guide pretty much have to be made to the main wiki first. If you know enough to update the Wind Mill page, that would be great. Then we could add the new version to this guide. I would add Kinetic and Heat power, but I don't know how they work myself. I don't really see how they add anything over electricity, but then again I haven't tried it. If you want to write something up, I'd be happy to edit it, if needed. I'll try to find some time to mess around with the new version of the mod, but by the time I catch up there'll probably be another major revision. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 08:29, 28 February 2015 (CET)

	:Ok I took a good look at the new Wind Generator and the Heat stuff. I definitely don't like the durability times for the rotors, especially of the wood ones, since they're the only ones you can make from a renewable resource. It looks like the Heat stuff is mostly about making Refined Iron, so it probably doesn't need to be in a First Steps guide, unless more stuff is added later. The Stirling Engine is kind of weird because if you hook up a solid or liquid heat generator to a Stirling Engine, you've basically created a two-block [[Generator]]. Have to see how efficient it is I suppose. I can work on adding a Kinetic Wind Generator with a wooden rotor. If they make the Heat stuff a little more interesting I might add a refined iron rotor later. The regular iron rotor seems like a waste. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 10:13, 28 February 2015 (CET)		== Alternative Power ==
	::Actually, they are all renewable even without replication. Obviously wood and iron are renewable (iron from Ferru, Golems, Zombies). Refined Iron requires iron, Compressed Air Cells (you get the cells back), and heat (which can be generated greenly). If you're really going to put in the effort, the Slag byproduct of refining iron actually can be centrifuged to make a renewable source of Coal Dust, or make a Wither Skeleton farm on top of the Nether. I'll try and update more of the wiki, too.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 13:34, 28 February 2015 (CET)		Ok I took a good look at the new Wind Generator and the Heat stuff. I definitely don't like the durability times for the rotors, especially of the wood ones, since they're the only ones you can make from a renewable resource. It looks like the Heat stuff is mostly about making Refined Iron, so it probably doesn't need to be in a First Steps guide, unless more stuff is added later. The Stirling Engine is kind of weird because if you hook up a solid or liquid heat generator to a Stirling Engine, you've basically created a two-block [[Generator]]. Have to see how efficient it is I suppose. I can work on adding a Kinetic Wind Generator with a wooden rotor. If they make the Heat stuff a little more interesting I might add a refined iron rotor later. The regular iron rotor seems like a waste. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 10:13, 28 February 2015 (CET)
			:Actually, they are all renewable even without replication. Obviously wood and iron are renewable (iron from Ferru, Golems, Zombies). Refined Iron requires iron, Compressed Air Cells (you get the cells back), and heat (which can be generated greenly). If you're really going to put in the effort, the Slag byproduct of refining iron actually can be centrifuged to make a renewable source of Coal Dust, or make a Wither Skeleton farm on top of the Nether. I'll try and update more of the wiki, too.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 13:34, 28 February 2015 (CET)

	:Do you know how to make an Iron Shaft? It hasn't been added to the wiki yet, and no version of the Kinetic Wind Generator can be built without it. Also, do you know if the Manual Kinetic Generator is working yet? I see it listed on the Recipes page. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 16:37, 2 March 2015 (CET)		::Do you know how to make an Iron Shaft? It hasn't been added to the wiki yet, and no version of the Kinetic Wind Generator can be built without it. Also, do you know if the Manual Kinetic Generator is working yet? I see it listed on the Recipes page. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 16:37, 2 March 2015 (CET)
	::You make the Shaft (Iron) in a Metal Former by extruding an Iron Block. The Manual Kinetic Generator works perfectly, it generates 100 EU per action (right click) when connected to a Kinetic Generator. I get ~15EU/t by standing there holding the right mouse button.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 17:40, 4 March 2015 (CET)		:::You make the Shaft (Iron) in a Metal Former by extruding an Iron Block. The Manual Kinetic Generator works perfectly, it generates 100 EU per action (right click) when connected to a Kinetic Generator. I get ~15EU/t by standing there holding the right mouse button.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 17:40, 4 March 2015 (CET)
	:::Cool. Thx. :) --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 05:49, 5 March 2015 (CET)		::::Cool. Thx. :) --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 05:49, 5 March 2015 (CET)
	:::Added. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)		::::Added. --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)
	::::The Manual Kinetic Generator itself produces kU (kinetic units), not EU. That is why it needs a Kinetic Generator to be attached to produce that 100 EU I was talking about.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)		:::::The Manual Kinetic Generator itself produces kU (kinetic units), not EU. That is why it needs a Kinetic Generator to be attached to produce that 100 EU I was talking about.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 23:45, 5 March 2015 (CET)

	:I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)		:I saw on the forums that steam generation is not intended to be used to produce EU (it results in a net loss, with the exception of using waste heat from a reactor). I saw a post that mentioned using steam for the early game, but not what for. If it is useful in the early game, I need to know if it should go in this guide. Do you know what is it intended for? --[[User:Trifler\|Trifler]] ([[User talk:Trifler\|talk]]) 07:43, 5 March 2015 (CET)
Line 119:		Line 121:
	:::: 2. There'd not really be any reason to limit what a kinetic steam generator is given steam wise, since Steam is otherwise useless (unless you're converting it all into distilled water using condensers), you should try and put all of it into the kinetic steam generator to avoid steam explosions.		:::: 2. There'd not really be any reason to limit what a kinetic steam generator is given steam wise, since Steam is otherwise useless (unless you're converting it all into distilled water using condensers), you should try and put all of it into the kinetic steam generator to avoid steam explosions.
	::: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Edits</span>]]• <span style="color:orange">Admin</span></sup>''' 01:43, 21 March 2015 (CET)		::: '''[[User:Chocohead\|<span style="color:green">Chocohead</span>]] <sup> [[User Talk:Chocohead\|<span style="color:red">Nag</span>]]• [[Special:Contributions/Chocohead\|<span style="color:blue">Edits</span>]]• <span style="color:orange">Admin</span></sup>''' 01:43, 21 March 2015 (CET)
			: I seem to have messed up the indentation with those spoilers, sorry. If anyone can fix that, please do... :S --[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 21:52, 25 March 2015 (CET)

			== Biofuel ==
			Now that I've gotten into it, Biofuel is a ''very'' good alternative energy source. It requires a bit of infrastructure, but the infrastructure is all Tier 1 (LV) while being fully renewable and later automated.
			Biochaff + Water in left tank -(Fluid/Solid Canning Machine)-> Biomass -(Fermenter)-> Biofuel -(Fluid Distributor)-> at least two Fluid Generators, one for the Fermenter and one for a Stirling Engine
			Well, I think it could be done before having an MFE. With Crop-Harvesters the process could definitely be fully automated.--[[User:Max Shen\|Max Shen]] ([[User talk:Max Shen\|talk]]) 21:52, 25 March 2015 (CET)